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Talk:Domination Magic
Something should be done about this. This article should be changed to Domination Magic (Quest) or the other one to Domination Magic (Attribute) --Geeman 08:20, 1 Aug 2005 (EST) Nevermind me. This has already been done. --Fyren 19:37, 1 Aug 2005 (EST) Disambiguation page or not? I believe this is wrong. I think Domination Magic should point to the attribute since 90% of the references and searches are for that, and then the parenthese go to the Quest. We can place a note in the Attribute page that says there is a quest with that name for those lost. --Karlos 10:39, 27 Sep 2005 (EST) :Wow. It's late February and I just noticed this. I agree. --130.58 09:54, 25 February 2006 (CST) ::Blah, I ditto. -PanSola 04:39, 26 February 2006 (CST) :::Problem with that is this article seems to be on a spambot's "attack list." I'd much rather protect a diambig. page than an attribute page, as nothing really needs to be added to this page, unless they make something else in the game and name it Domination Magic. --Rainith 10:38, 26 February 2006 (CST) ::::I prefer having a disambiguation page here; but most of the articles that link to this page should be fixed to bypass it and go directly to the article (for example, each skill should link directly to the attribute article instead of to here). --161.88.255.140 00:42, 28 February 2006 (CST) ::::I ackownledge Rainith's concern, but still agree with Karlos and 130.58. The Domination attribute article is pretty complete, with rarely any edits, so I don't see protection would be a major problem. You can eitehr tell ppl to post their edits to the talk page, or make a editcopy. -PanSola 00:48, 28 February 2006 (CST) Hot vandalism target Nearly all of recent edits to this article have been reversions of vandalism and spamming. As this page seems fairly final in its design, perhaps it's time to protect it? — Stabber 23:08, 23 February 2006 (CST) : I wonder what makes this page such a preferred target for spammers and vandals. It looks like any other page to me. -- 23:15, 23 February 2006 (CST) ::That would be the word "Domination," which triggers spambots because of the sexual association. --130.58 01:40, 25 February 2006 (CST) :::Heh, pwned d-: -PanSola 01:46, 25 February 2006 (CST) ::::Protected. --Rainith 07:30, 25 February 2006 (CST) Article name This messes up the attribute box, can't we move this to domination magic and put a see also link 195.137.4.228 14:15, 23 April 2006 (CDT) :Considering that 99% of the time, you do mean the attribute, not the quest, and considering how many links to the disambiguation page I've had to change, and considering how Protection Prayers and Protection Prayers (quest) are set up, I really think we should just make Domination Magic refer to the attribute and just have a little note at the top that points to the quest. --adeyke 18:37, 23 April 2006 (CDT) ::Thirded. See also Talk:Domination Magic. That article needs to be unprotected by an admin first. I doubt the spambots will be returning any time soon, what with the Captcha and all. — Stabber ✍ 18:39, 23 April 2006 (CDT) :::My bot is making this move now. — Stabber ✍ 19:19, 23 April 2006 (CDT) :::Done! — Stabber ✍ 19:44, 23 April 2006 (CDT) Should Punishment Spells have a seperate list? I like to think that I have a good grasp on Punishment builds, but I know a lot of people just don't get the idea behind it. Couple with the fact that not many people use Mesmers (IMHO) and that, when they do, it is a secondary for Echo, why don't we help clue people in with a list of Punishment Skills for all Mesmer spells? Why not go one better, and maybe put one up for all classes? --Carnival King 02:49, 6 December 2006 (CST) I don't know, it seems a bit obvious. And it might be subjective as to what a punishment skill actually is. Tycn 03:07, 8 February 2007 (CST) :This idea could be expanded on the Punish page that's currently out there. It's a pretty measly stub at the moment. --Zampani 12:00, 8 February 2007 (CST) Incorrect description I am not sure that I am allowed to make the change. But I think that the description should also read that Interuption works on Chants as well and not just spells.--User:Bambeastie. 1:00. 27 July 2007 Biased Very important? Perhaps most important? I have to disagree. I'd say any mesmer attribute is just as "important" as any other. It should be changed to be less biased, imo.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'Darksyde']] 17:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC) :This is the most used attribute, simply because Illusion sucks and Inspiration is only for e-management or Teaseway heros. (T/ ) 23:47, 15 January 2009 (UTC) ::Needs to mention Visions of Regret, since that's the single most used mesmer elite in existence. 23:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC) :::My dom mes prefers to echo empathy, backfire, or Pain Inverter depending on the foe. I feel that has more versatility despite potentially targeting less foes. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 23:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC) ::::Oh, well I'm glad you're the only mesmer in existence. That makes it easier. 23:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC) :::::My previous post did not state you are wrong or anything >_> -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 00:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::Neither did mine <_< 00:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::Merited or unmerited bias aside, this page needs revision. Power Spike is not popular, and I am too new of a player to remember a time when it was. I'm going to change some things. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 00:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::::...............yes it is. (T/ ) 01:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::::Ok. I changed some things while keeping the general structure intact. The article referred to skills that very few people use (Mind Wrack, Signet of Weariness, etc), so I changed those around and included more commonly and successfully employed skills without bordering on flavor-of-the-month-ism, at least in my opinion. Tell me what you think. I'm sure more could, and probably should, be done. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 01:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::::And I was surprised to find we don't have a shutdown page. Thoughts on making one? It could be as simple as similar pages. I'm blanking here, but something along the lines of bar compression. Succinct. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 01:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::...........no it isn't. That is to say, I respectfully disagree. Where do you see Power Spike used? [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 01:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::On Heroes. On Warriors. Everywhere. 5e interrupt with fast recharge time is win. No one uses pleak anymore because e-denial is barely viable at all. (T/ ) 01:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC) To note, Illusion is VERY powerful in terms of antimelee and (by extention) PvE. — Powersurge360 01:39, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::::I would argue that Power Leak has been a staple in Domination Mesmer builds in GvG for a long time. Of course, GvG isn't everything. Energy denial is hardly viable if it's the only thing the build is doing, like those one-trick-pony Me/N's or N/Me's with Malaise and similar hexes. Energy Burn, Energy Surge, and Power Leak are fantastic because they do other useful things besides deny energy. I'm not belittling the value of Power Spike, but look at it this way. The ~100 damage from Power Spike can be remedied with a 5 energy heal. Power Leak drains around 14 energy. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 01:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Skill denial will always be the better form of shutdown. I can't remember the last time I've had PLeak on my bar. In 4v4 I usually run a Psychic Instability build, and in GvG or higher I run a PBlock/PLock build. Plus, PLock recharges faster and can be used more skillfully than PLeak. — Powersurge360 01:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Is it ironic that I defend Power Leak yet I don't use it either? I favor Power Drain and Fry of Crustacean. But then again, I rarely venture into high level pvp. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 01:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC) (Reset indent) lol, you said "Cry of Crustacean" — Powersurge360 01:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :*Fry, actually. Which is even more clever. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 01:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::Illusion Magic is useful because it has Clumsiness and Wandering Eye. And sometimes Shared Burden. SV/AV is used in niche builds; same for Signet of Illusions. Arcane Conundrum/Frustration are also good, although it's better to stop them in the first place with skill disable, interrupts, or use Backfire. The rest of the line is pretty much crap. No one uses Illusion snares because they just suck compared to Water Magic etc. ones. Anyway, pdrain is more for the user's benefit than to punish the enemy so I think it's not comparable...and CoF is just better than all of them since it's wtfAoE and also a hard interrupt. :) ::The thing with Power Spike is that it costs less energy, recharges faster, and can actually kill a target. Sure you can heal over it for 5e, but then you've effectively wasted 5e - just like what Power Leak would do. ::Energy denial isn't really viable anymore because there are far too many good e-management options available, regardless of primary profession. It's not much used anymore. (T/ ) 01:56, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::I agree that energy denial isn't used much anymore if it's the sole or primary focus of the build. But energy denial as a side effect is great for extended pvp battles. But I don't think the energy pressure provided by leak and spike is comparable. 5 energy heal + x energy cost of spell interrupted is always going to be less pressure than the 14 energy lost from leak + x energy cost of spell interrupted. I think both skills are viable, though obviously they shine in different situations. And yes, the potential to kill someone with Power Spike is very nice, especially when your target is relying on a spell as a last chance self heal. [[User:Lazuli|Lazuli]] 02:12, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::I would have thought for low energy fast recharge you'd want Power Return. Especially with the e-management argument the energy regained by the target doesn't really help your enemy much, right? -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 02:51, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::Power Return is ideal, yes, but it also lacks the bonus effects that Spike/Leak have. However, using Power Return as a secondary Mesmer is kind of silly for general usage, as more often than not you'd be giving them an energy gain. :\ (T/ ) 02:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::Ok, well i didn't expect this much of a conversation, but i really don't think Dom is as powerful as a lot of people give it credit for. The only reason it's so popular is because any wiki douchebag can copy and paste a dom build and spam dom hexes on someone with higher success than a newbie with illusion. I use mostly illusion and inspiration, and whenever i see a dom mesmer i kick their asssssss. And making spells take longer to cast means you can hesitate on interrupts, interrupt more reliably, and make them waste even more time casting only to have it interrupted, while your other interrupts recharge(It's always hilarious seeing 10-second meteor showers get stopped at the last second).--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'Darksyde']] 17:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::::::So...you think Illusion is good because the average nub is too dumb to cancel Meteor Shower under Arcane Conundrum? Fact is that Domination has plenty more powerful skills than Illusion, and always has. Not just power, too, but utility... (T/ ) 17:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::Power Return is epically pwnsome for PvE, though :) They have infinibars anyways, so even if you netgain them energy, it's worth it :P But yeah, stupid for PvP. --- -- ( ) (talk) 17:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC) SINEPTITUDE Lord of all tyria 18:13, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :SoM?!?!?! (T/ ) 18:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC) ::On topic. VoR mes owns arenas. Dom (PD or VoR) is better in HA. Dom is stronger in GvG outside of gimmicks (see previous post). Dom or illusion is cool for AB or PvE, different effectzzz. Pleak owns. Lord of all tyria 18:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :::::::(Reply to Entropy)No, i like illusion because it's versatile, and doesn't require your target to be a dumbass for you to kill them, though dumbassery helps. Like i said, slower casting means more time for your interrupts to recharge, more time they're standing still for allies to come help, more time they're wasting on something that'll be interrupted when they could be using it to move/move on to the next skill. Also, applying a lot of degen will send a lot of players into panic mode and eventually kill them/cause them to back off. And a mesmer w/o inspiration is like a Ranger w/o expertise.--[[User:Darksyde_Never_Again|'Darksyde']] 01:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)